Subtitles out of sync ?

Anything and everything to do with DCP-o-matic.
IoannisSyrogiannis
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:40 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: Subtitles out of sync ?

Post by IoannisSyrogiannis »

If the ProRes and the DCP are the exact same duration, then they are the exact same framerate.
And if the subtitles are in sync with the ProRes, then they should be in sync with the DCP.
The (srt ?) subtitle files have not the info of the framerate on them. On cases like .pac, etc. usually there is a "zero" subtitle, the first that might not appear but for a frame, which has the information about the subtitle, the video etc. that one might need.
So, given the lack of framerate on the subtitle file, there is no initial value for the subtitle on that field.
Yet, if the DCP project you have is for a 25 IPS and you enter " 24 ", that the subtitles were made for 24 IPS, then DCP-o-matic will speed up the subtitles, to fit an acceleration of 1/24. (And, thus, change the framerate, from 24 to 25.)

If the video was already 25 IPS and you indicated to the program that the subtitles were made for 25 IPS, then there shouldn't be any change on the speed of the subtitles.
Also, if you were to open the ProRes with -say- VLC, and added the subtitles (either by Menu > Subtitle > Add subtitle file.. or by dragging and dropping on the player the subtitle file, while the video is playing) the subtitles should be playing in sync. In your case, at the same time the burned-in are playing.

Now, if that is the case, and if you used a similarly created ProRes without subtitles at first, that would play correct with the subtitles on the hypothetical VLC, then the DCP should have the subtitles synchronized as well. So, it might be some glitch, a pépin, if you will, on how DCP-o-matic is interpreting. I would trust Carl with that, as he suggests.

If it was me, and if I had the time and resources, I would try the following to satisfy my curiosity:
I would have exported a ProRes with no subtitles burned in.
I would have checked the subtitles' file with the ProRes, to make sure it's on sync.
I would have made a DCP with no subtitles. There would be a warning to make SMPTE DCP, I guess you haven't made an IOP/interop before.
I would have checked the subtitles (like if I was to make a VF > Version File with only the subtitles, not to confuse French version). If the subtitles were O.K., I would have made the VF, and check it with the DCP-o-matic player.
If the subtitles didn't look O.K. while making the VF, I would have used DCP-o-matic to export the DCP (with no subtitles) to an MP4 file, setting the " quality " to a high number -> low quality and bandwidth and check the subtitles with that MP4.
The ProRes master and the MP4 should be the same, in terms of timing. Therefore, the subtitles should fit both.
If they don't, then the process affects the timing of the video.
If they do, then the subtitles are misinterpreted by DCP-o-matic.

As I try to make sense out of that all, I thought about another thing for you to try:
You said something about .srt. I suppose that the subtitles' file you have in your hands is an .srt file.
I would try to open it with -say- Subtitle Edit or, if you work on a Mac, with Subtitle Edit online. Then, make a minor change, just to make sure that the file will not be kept the same. For instance, change a space somewhere, and then save again as .srt.
Then, try to check that file with DCP-o-matic.
The reason for that is that, once every now and then, a subtitle file gets some formatting that is extraordinary. And that could later create problems. I know I have had such problems that were solved in such a manner in the past, making subtitles for streaming (.vtt). They wouldn't ingest, until I would re-open, make a small change, save fix that change and save again... magic. :lol:

P.S. I see that Carl also wrote while I was writing all that.
lululoup59
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2025 3:20 pm

Re: Subtitles out of sync ?

Post by lululoup59 »

carl wrote: Thu Sep 04, 2025 11:57 pm Hi,

I downloaded the video you sent by email and loaded it into DCP-o-matic with the .srt file. After moving the .srt file 6 seconds and 7 frames forwards I played the project and compared the .srt subtitles with the burnt-in ones.

The subtitles seem to be fairly well in sync. Any errors I have seen are certainly less than 1s (as you describe).

As others have said, the difference in length between the .srt and the video seem to just be due to the credits.

Which version of DCP-o-matic are you using?

Kind regards,
Carl
Hi,

I'm using the 2.18.23. (git f68b1a0970)
I tried to do as you did, change only 1 second, and it almost fit perfectly this time (idk why) so I kept it this way! It will be okay for my first festival.
I will try what IoannisSyrogiannis suggest in a few weeks (when I have access to a computer again) and come back to you to see what happened.
In the meantime thank you again for your help and your time!

Bests,

Lululoup59
lululoup59
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2025 3:20 pm

Re: Subtitles out of sync ?

Post by lululoup59 »

IoannisSyrogiannis wrote: Fri Sep 05, 2025 12:09 am If the ProRes and the DCP are the exact same duration, then they are the exact same framerate.
And if the subtitles are in sync with the ProRes, then they should be in sync with the DCP.
The (srt ?) subtitle files have not the info of the framerate on them. On cases like .pac, etc. usually there is a "zero" subtitle, the first that might not appear but for a frame, which has the information about the subtitle, the video etc. that one might need.
So, given the lack of framerate on the subtitle file, there is no initial value for the subtitle on that field.
Yet, if the DCP project you have is for a 25 IPS and you enter " 24 ", that the subtitles were made for 24 IPS, then DCP-o-matic will speed up the subtitles, to fit an acceleration of 1/24. (And, thus, change the framerate, from 24 to 25.)

If the video was already 25 IPS and you indicated to the program that the subtitles were made for 25 IPS, then there shouldn't be any change on the speed of the subtitles.
Also, if you were to open the ProRes with -say- VLC, and added the subtitles (either by Menu > Subtitle > Add subtitle file.. or by dragging and dropping on the player the subtitle file, while the video is playing) the subtitles should be playing in sync. In your case, at the same time the burned-in are playing.

Now, if that is the case, and if you used a similarly created ProRes without subtitles at first, that would play correct with the subtitles on the hypothetical VLC, then the DCP should have the subtitles synchronized as well. So, it might be some glitch, a pépin, if you will, on how DCP-o-matic is interpreting. I would trust Carl with that, as he suggests.

If it was me, and if I had the time and resources, I would try the following to satisfy my curiosity:
I would have exported a ProRes with no subtitles burned in.
I would have checked the subtitles' file with the ProRes, to make sure it's on sync.
I would have made a DCP with no subtitles. There would be a warning to make SMPTE DCP, I guess you haven't made an IOP/interop before.
I would have checked the subtitles (like if I was to make a VF > Version File with only the subtitles, not to confuse French version). If the subtitles were O.K., I would have made the VF, and check it with the DCP-o-matic player.
If the subtitles didn't look O.K. while making the VF, I would have used DCP-o-matic to export the DCP (with no subtitles) to an MP4 file, setting the " quality " to a high number -> low quality and bandwidth and check the subtitles with that MP4.
The ProRes master and the MP4 should be the same, in terms of timing. Therefore, the subtitles should fit both.
If they don't, then the process affects the timing of the video.
If they do, then the subtitles are misinterpreted by DCP-o-matic.

As I try to make sense out of that all, I thought about another thing for you to try:
You said something about .srt. I suppose that the subtitles' file you have in your hands is an .srt file.
I would try to open it with -say- Subtitle Edit or, if you work on a Mac, with Subtitle Edit online. Then, make a minor change, just to make sure that the file will not be kept the same. For instance, change a space somewhere, and then save again as .srt.
Then, try to check that file with DCP-o-matic.
The reason for that is that, once every now and then, a subtitle file gets some formatting that is extraordinary. And that could later create problems. I know I have had such problems that were solved in such a manner in the past, making subtitles for streaming (.vtt). They wouldn't ingest, until I would re-open, make a small change, save fix that change and save again... magic. :lol:

P.S. I see that Carl also wrote while I was writing all that.
Hi,
Thank you so much fr this loong explanation and tips! I am currently away from home for several weeks but I will definitely try all of this when I come back. It will be usefull for my next festival applications.
Merci !
I keep you posted when I will manage to do that...