Multi Subtitles on DCP

[Matt]

Hello


I would like to know if is't possible to insert multiple subtitles ( different languages ​​) on a single DCP to choose the projection?

thanks

Matthieu

[ydedy]

Hello all,

I am also interested by this feature. We have a couple of movies for which we would like to make encrpyted DCP with multiple CPL (Original version + Subtitled original version).
Manually adding CPL on an unsigned/unencrypted DCP is not that difficult (tools from http://www.michaelcinquin.com/ might interest some people here) but I gets pretty tricky when we have to deal with certificates and KDM.

Yohann

[Carsten]

No, it is not possible to add multiple subtitle languages to a single DCP/CPL, and then choose between them at projection time. No projection system/server supports that. Subtitled DCPs/Servers do not work like a DVD or BluRay Player.

You need to create a separate CPL for every individual subtitle language, as you would need to do for different audio languages.
That should be done with the recent capability of DCP-o-matic to create version files by referencing existing DCPs, as it is used with commercial DCP mastering/distribution.

Of course, you could create a full self-contained DCP for every single subtitle language. But each of these DCPs would then contain the full video and audio tracks, eating up multiple time the size of an OV + VFs.

That said - many people refer to the term 'DCP' as a single playable media item. However, a DCP formally can contain multiple separate media items. As such, a single DCP can indeed contain multiple subtitle language versions. Just only in the form of separate CPLs that need to be chosen explicitly at playtime.

I just dealt with a filmmaker who had created a single CPL with 7 different subtitle languages. He had just added them to the project and chosen to make a single DCP. They all played together at the same time on the same screen position, giving a very nice graphical impression, but not a readable subtitle. It was still interesting to find out both DCP-o-matic and the server dealt with this technically correct. In some countries, two different subtitles on screen is actually common. You would just need to create a different Y-offset for the second title.


- Carsten

[ydedy]

Well, this is exactly what I am asking.
I am aware that each CPL in a DCP must correspond to a subtitled version of the movie (or not subtitled at all in case of pure OV). I have no problem doing it manually when the DCP are not encrypted

The question is just : is DCP-o-matic handling/will handle the feature of creating multiple CPL for a single encrypted DCP so I don't have to go through a commercial solution to do this operation?

- Yohann

[Carsten]

Oh, yes it will. Create your OV without subtitles. Then create each subtitled version by importing the OV and check the 'refer to existing DCP' for video and audio, just add one subtitle file for each version file. The result will be an OV, and additional VF packages containing only the subtitles.
You need to ingest the OV and all the individual VFs on the server then.

This feature is still experimental, so make sure you stick to a straight and consistent workflow.

- Carsten

[lemgeo]

Hi all

i've made VF packages the way Carsten describes and they are working ok to several Dolby servers.

Is it possible to create vf packages in the same folder -the ov package folder-?
i mean one folder containing the different subs, the video-audio mxf, one pkl, one asset map, one volindex and multi cpls?

George

[Carsten]

I don't think that is possible currently. I have never seen a formal description of these two methods - combining OV and VFs in a single package, vs. having separate folders/packages. Technically, you can put multiple CPLs with their assets into a single folder - the problem is, you need to create a single assetmap and packing list for all these CPLs and Assets. You can not have multiple packing lists and assetmaps in one folder, simply merging an OV and VF DCP on a file level.

That merge process would have to be supported by DCP-o-matic explicitly. It is possible to do that merging manually by editing PKL and Assetmap, but doing it that way calls for trouble.

I think a separate app 'DCP merger' or 'Package merger' could actually be useful. The way OV and VF are currently done in DCP-o-matic, I can't see how to create merged packages from within the GUI. And it get's even more difficult when you add more than one VF



Maybe Carl has an idea how to implement this.

- Carsten

[scorpio81]

We receive many so called "combo packages" that contain multiple CPLs and PKLs in one folder. And of course one Assetmap and one Volindex.
Servers that scan and ingest PKLs can ingest PKL only for one of the versions (i.e. 2D) which contains 2 CPLs - OV and VF. Or if PKL is for 2D VF - they ingest only that version. There are even separate PKLs and CPLs for testing purposes inside that folder.
So, having multiple CPLs and PKLs in one folder is not a problem for servers scanning and ingesting PKLs or CPLs (Doremi, Chrsitie, Dolby via USB). It is a problem for servers ingesting the whole folder (i.e. Dolby via FTP) in case you need only one version on server and there is not enough free space to ingest two versions just to delete one of them later. In the latter case it is better to have one folder for each version.

[rtX]

Create your OV without subtitles. Then create each subtitled version by importing the OV and check the 'refer to existing DCP' for video and audio, just add one subtitle file for each version file. The result will be an OV, and additional VF packages containing only the subtitles.
You need to ingest the OV and all the individual VFs on the server then.

I've already provided my original version DCP to a festival in France. I'm trying to retrospectively add the subtitles. I've started another post on this before I found this thread. I want to add the subtitles to what they already have over there. I think I may be able to do this using a version file (from what I read above and from Carl's response to my post). I have a copy of the DCP here. When I "File->Open" the file in the folder immediately above the actual DCP directory (the one we deliver), it opens up but reports all sound and video files as missing (these are the original source files and they've been moved). The "Refer to existing video" and "Refer to existing sound" check boxes are greyed out and I can't select them. The "Use subtitles" checkbox is also greyed. When you say to import the existing OV into DCP-o-matic, do I simply open it or do I need to re-link all the source files etc? Or is there another way to import?

TIA

[lemgeo]

If you have a copy of the DCP you've sent to the festival:
create new project,
add folder and choose your DCP(you'll need a kdm for Dom).

the way Carl describes worked for me several times.
You have to send to the festival a kdm for the new cpl( the VF package).
For me kdm for the OV package wasn't necessary but to be sure send a kdm for the OV too.

lemgeo