Any possible solution for Atmos content today?

[SamDownie]

I can reply to everyone about Dolby Atmos. Over the pandemic I've had various emails with Carl the developer of DCP-o-matic, discussing Atmos.
I will share what I shared with Carl, plus add in some new latest information about the format with links to what you need directly from DOLBY's own website, so that you can learn all about Atmos and Immersive mixing and how to create the 7.1.2 atmos file. So.. read on:

I bring some useful help for you and users, when it comes to adding a 7.1.2 / 7.1.4 soundtrack,
also known as, you've guessed it.. Atmos, which has become a well known audio format for Cinema and now TV and for Headphones.

Can it be added to DCP O Matic, yes it should. Can you use the name of Dolby Atmos, no you can't.
However.. I bring news on how to incorporate it, as it's a Cinema audio and industry standard.

The standard is called : SMPTE 2098-2 , also known as IAB

1. there's a video about it all here from 2018 :

https://www.smpte.org/webcast/ins-and-o ... -bitstream

2. There's a cinema industry forum, that talks about the launch of this audio standard, in this document :

https://isdcf.com/MeetingNotes/MeetingN ... POSTED.pdf

3. This website has information on the IAB and naming structure for "Atmos" files:

https://celluloidjunkie.com/2022/06/13/ ... is-an-iab/

SPOILER ALERT: IAB is the SMPTE standard; Dolby Atmos is a system that can playback that standard.

4. you might find the technical docs from the ISDCF of use:

https://www.isdcf.com/site/technical-docs/

5. I did a bit of searching about this and found this cinema tech forum that describes DCP creating with a IAB .mxf file :

http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/main ... ecomes-iab

So now you know.

So my question now is : Does DCP O Matic understand what a IAB .mxf file is , and can it be put into the DCP that your app creates ?
My theory is... it should do, as it's an audio standard from SMPTE.

OKAY, so now you know this - here's a way of creating the IAB file on a Mac, but it's NOT Free :

1. Edit your film on Final Cut Pro (or other film editor application) . It will create a Stereo audio file, only use this as a Sync track for the next stage.

2. Create and design your "Atmos" immersive audio mix, in Logic Pro X. It now has a built in renderer for surround.

2a : import your film into Logic Pro as a .movie file , and follow these guides :

handy guide here : https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/l ... 3d1147/mac

handy guide from Dolby here : https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s ... age=en_US
handy updated guides here : https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/logic-pro-x

handy review guide here : https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/produc ... ed-to-know

3. when you've mixed your immersive mix in 7.1 or 7.1.2 , save/export your mix as a ADM BWF :

https://support.apple.com/en-sa/guide/l ... 53a8ce/mac

4. now you have your immersive mix, you need to convert it to a IAB . mxf file :

4.a. sign up to DOLBY for free at : https://customer.dolby.com

4 b. download the Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool here :

https://professional.dolby.com/product/ ... sion-tool/

4 c. use the conversion tool to convert the ADM BWF file into a IAB mxf file

5. import the IAB mxf file into DCP O Matic ? Are there any steps within DCP O Matic to follow ?

This is the workflow I shall use, for my short film called - Meet The Metahumans - for screening at film festivals in 2023/2024 :

www.dsoundz.co.uk/meet-the-metahumans

And yes.. I've been awarded a Dolby Institute Fellowship Award, as a disabled filmmaker, using Dolby Atmos to shape my film.

These steps are handy for every filmmaker, and at least you now know that Dolby Atmos is a SMPTE standard, for DCP's and Cinemas,
and has been since 2018. Hope this help and advice helps you and all users of DCP O Matic.

Please do share it, let me know if this workflow works for you. And please credit me.

[Kewl]

3. when you've mixed your immersive mix in 7.1 or 7.1.2 , save/export your mix as a ADM BWF :
4. now you have your immersive mix, you need to convert it to a IAB . mxf file :
4 c. use the conversion tool to convert the ADM BWF file into a IAB mxf file

Hum, curious to try if the ADM BWF out of the Reaper/EAR Production Suite will convert well using the Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool.

By the way, the Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool was updated this week to version 2.1:

New features include:
Ability to edit, join, and convert 96 kHz ADM BWF master files
Frame rate conversion without changing pitch via the Maintain pitch and length switch
Command-line only options for sample-based trimming and padding, and specifying 5.1 and 5.1.x downmix settings written to the master
New IAB IMF group metadata, as specified in SMPTE ST 377-41:2021
Support for macOS Ventura and Windows 11
Apple silicon support
UI design system update / New application icon
Changed DCP IAB format labels to Cinema MXF

https://customer.dolby.com/content-crea ... -tool-v210
https://www.reaper.fm/download.php
https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io

[Kewl]

This answers my question, from the EAR Production suite website https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io :

Will my exported ADM BW64 files work with other tools, such as the Dolby Atmos Production Suite?
Currently the files are not compatible with the Dolby Atmos Production Suite.
The cause of this problem is that each set of tools currently uses a different ADM profile. The EAR Production Suite uses the EBU ADM Production profile, whereas the Dolby Atmos tools use Dolby’s ADM profile specification. The EAR Production Suite provides a conversion from the Dolby profile on import, however it only exports to the EBU Production profile and the Dolby tools do not accept this as input. We hope to provide support for ADM profile conversion in future.
More generally, ADM support has been implemented by different manufacturers and there are currently some interoperability issues. The EBU ADM Production profile is not yet widely supported, but we are working with the industry to ensure proper interoperability, using common profiles at the various stages from production through to emission.

Capture d’écran, le 2023-04-23 à 08.11.35.png

[jdent02]

The cause of this problem is that each set of tools currently uses a different ADM profile. The EAR Production Suite uses the EBU ADM Production profile, whereas the Dolby Atmos tools use Dolby’s ADM profile specification.

That's exactly what I was saying, that ADM files exported from ProTools or Resolve are "Dolby-ized" versions that don't entirely conform to the EBU ADM standard.

4 c. use the conversion tool to convert the ADM BWF file into a IAB mxf file

From what I'm seeing, the Dolby Atmos conversion tool still export IMF IAB only, with Dolby metadata in it. Putting that .mxf file through MediaInfo also generates this little nugget: Warnings: Potential IAB/ADM coherency issues detected. To me that implies that the IAB file is not SMPTE compliant and likely will not play on a cinema processor.

[izwb003]

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to continue replying on this topic from six months ago, but I would love to share my research findings from the past six months.
Since posting this topic, I have not stopped researching "playing self-made Atmos content in theaters". Everyone's response has given me a lot of reference, and I am very grateful. Here is my summary. All of what I have described are my deductions based on the information I have found, so I really hope to verify their accuracy:

1. As an ordinary person who do not know Dolby staff, we are unable to produce the Atmos asset, also known as Dolby Atmos Cinema MXF, which is played in cinemas. No relevant tools have been made public. These tools require professional facilities such as Dolby's RMU or SCC, and they are only available to certified professional studios. reference
2. However, the new IAB standard maybe a solution. A SMPTE professional says the ST 2098-2 was adapted from a Dolby's Atmos Cinema content document. So the bit streams of the two should be very similar.
3. Although they are similar, IAB still includes some extension features that are not available in Atmos, so a bitstream following ST 2098-2 may not work properly in an Atmos theater. However SMPTE provides a registered disclosure document called RDD57, which limits a ST 2098-2 bitstream to a certain range called IAB Application Profile 1. I read this document and I found such a word: " Legacy content (Dolby Atmos) follows the
   guidelines of IAB Profile 1." So it (may) means a IAB bitstream follows RDD57 may be available to play in a Dolby Atmos theater. reference

4. I can reply to everyone about Dolby Atmos. Over the pandemic I've had various emails with Carl the developer of DCP-o-matic, discussing Atmos.
   I will share what I shared with Carl, plus add in some new latest information about the format with links to what you need directly from DOLBY's own website, so that you can learn all about Atmos and Immersive mixing and how to create the 7.1.2 atmos file. So.. read on:
   
   I bring some useful help for you and users, when it comes to adding a 7.1.2 / 7.1.4 soundtrack,
   also known as, you've guessed it.. Atmos, which has become a well known audio format for Cinema and now TV and for Headphones.
   
   Can it be added to DCP O Matic, yes it should. Can you use the name of Dolby Atmos, no you can't.
   However.. I bring news on how to incorporate it, as it's a Cinema audio and industry standard.
   
   The standard is called : SMPTE 2098-2 , also known as IAB
   
   1. there's a video about it all here from 2018 :
   
   https://www.smpte.org/webcast/ins-and-o ... -bitstream
   
   2. There's a cinema industry forum, that talks about the launch of this audio standard, in this document :
   
   https://isdcf.com/MeetingNotes/MeetingN ... POSTED.pdf
   
   3. This website has information on the IAB and naming structure for "Atmos" files:
   
   https://celluloidjunkie.com/2022/06/13/ ... is-an-iab/
   
   SPOILER ALERT: IAB is the SMPTE standard; Dolby Atmos is a system that can playback that standard.
   
   4. you might find the technical docs from the ISDCF of use:
   
   https://www.isdcf.com/site/technical-docs/
   
   5. I did a bit of searching about this and found this cinema tech forum that describes DCP creating with a IAB .mxf file :
   
   http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/main ... ecomes-iab
   
   So now you know.
   
   So my question now is : Does DCP O Matic understand what a IAB .mxf file is , and can it be put into the DCP that your app creates ?
   My theory is... it should do, as it's an audio standard from SMPTE.
   
   OKAY, so now you know this - here's a way of creating the IAB file on a Mac, but it's NOT Free :
   
   1. Edit your film on Final Cut Pro (or other film editor application) . It will create a Stereo audio file, only use this as a Sync track for the next stage.
   
   2. Create and design your "Atmos" immersive audio mix, in Logic Pro X. It now has a built in renderer for surround.
   
   2a : import your film into Logic Pro as a .movie file , and follow these guides :
   
   handy guide here : https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/l ... 3d1147/mac
   
   handy guide from Dolby here : https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s ... age=en_US
   handy updated guides here : https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/logic-pro-x
   
   handy review guide here : https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/produc ... ed-to-know
   
   3. when you've mixed your immersive mix in 7.1 or 7.1.2 , save/export your mix as a ADM BWF :
   
   https://support.apple.com/en-sa/guide/l ... 53a8ce/mac
   
   4. now you have your immersive mix, you need to convert it to a IAB . mxf file :
   
   4.a. sign up to DOLBY for free at : https://customer.dolby.com
   
   4 b. download the Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool here :
   
   https://professional.dolby.com/product/ ... sion-tool/
   
   4 c. use the conversion tool to convert the ADM BWF file into a IAB mxf file
   
   5. import the IAB mxf file into DCP O Matic ? Are there any steps within DCP O Matic to follow ?
   
   This is the workflow I shall use, for my short film called - Meet The Metahumans - for screening at film festivals in 2023/2024 :
   
   www.dsoundz.co.uk/meet-the-metahumans
   
   And yes.. I've been awarded a Dolby Institute Fellowship Award, as a disabled filmmaker, using Dolby Atmos to shape my film.
   
   These steps are handy for every filmmaker, and at least you now know that Dolby Atmos is a SMPTE standard, for DCP's and Cinemas,
   and has been since 2018. Hope this help and advice helps you and all users of DCP O Matic.
   
   Please do share it, let me know if this workflow works for you. And please credit me.

   A reason why this workflow will not work: problem is from 4 c. Dolby Atmos Conversion Tool only creates a kind of file called IMF IAB. This kind of file follows neither original IAB ST 2098-2 nor Dolby Atmos Cinema MXF, so it cannot be placed into a DCP directly.
   This kind of file follows a standard called ST 2067-201, which is called "Immersive Audio Bitstream Level 0 Plug-in", which added something to ST 2098-2. What's more, Dolby made some adjustments to it, which was described in this document.
5. Also, I also found a document called RDD29.2019 Dolby Atmos Bitstream Specification. I tried to download and read it through my school's campus access to IEEE XPlore and guess maybe this is how Dolby Atmos cinema content was encoded, but I'm not sure because it is too short.
6. So in one word, what we have these days maybe can be described as the following graph:
   IAB Standards.jpg

Then is the conclusion:
In my opinion, All the materials for producing content that can be played at Dolby Atmos theater are now complete. Perhaps we currently only lack one person who is interested and very familiar with programming work. He may be able to do as the following to create an encoder for encoding Dolby Atmos cinema content:

• Create a encoder by reading ST 2098-2 to encode IAB. This encoder needs to follow RDD57.
• Input files can be Dolby Atmos ADM BWF, which standard is public here.
• If possible, I think he/she can also write this encoder by following these steps:
  1. Read the input from a IMF IAB file, and try to cancel the difference made by ST2067-201 and the Dolby's document. Then we have ST 2098-2 bitstream.
  2. Limit the bitstream to RDD57, then the bitstream can be played in Dolby Atmos theatres.
• asdcplib may work for final MXF wrapping.
• If RDD29 is really how Dolby Atmos cinema content was encoded, maybe he/she can write the encoder just by following RDD29.

Finally I wonder:

• Is this process really feasible?
• If it is, how hard it will be to write such an "encoder"? Is it OK for just a well-experienced person or a small team to complete, or only professional audio software company can do it?
• As everything we need is complete, why hasn't there been a public available DCP IAB encoder in the past five years? Is there anything that prevented its appearance?

If this process is proved feasible, I think I will not stop researching it. But now I really hope someone can evaluate my summary above.
Thanks everyone again for your hard work! You made digital cinema available to everyone in the world.

[Carsten]

Again - I think it's best to wait for Black Magic Design to implement IAB in Resolve.

[izwb003]

Again - I think it's best to wait for Black Magic Design to implement IAB in Resolve.

I also think so. But considering that this feature has not yet appeared for a long time, I am worried that there may be something that prevents BMD from adding this feature, such as Dolby not allowing them to do so. And I believe it may support IAB Profile 2 3 or later, rather than supporting "Legacy" Atmos content, which is IAB Profile 1.
But no matter what, waiting now may indeed be the best choice.

[jdent02]

But considering that this feature has not yet appeared for a long time, I am worried that there may be something that prevents BMD from adding this feature, such as Dolby not allowing them to do so.

Given Dolby's history of aggressively protecting their turf I am inclined to still believe this. NONE of the content creation software that works with immersive audio can export non Atmos IAB files, and they all use the Dolby Atmos decoder for live monitoring. Coincidence? Not likely. Especially for Blackmagic, which otherwise has done an amazing job of making high end tools available to just about everyone.

[izwb003]

OK, so... no matter how, I finally made a solution by myself.

I created a tool and I called it CineIA. It uses the IABLib by DTS to re-encode the IMF IAB file (which is easy to make) into a IAB that follows Dolby Atmos constraints. I also linked asdcplib into it to make it can wrap Cinema MXF directly. That is, I made a IMF IAB to DCP IAB converter.

By feeding it a IMF IAB .mxf file it will give you a .mxf file that can be put into DCP-o-matic directly. DCP-o-matic will think it is an Atmos asset and do the correct work to make a Atmos copy.

I've tested some simple IMF IABs and made some test DCPs, in an Atmos theater it works fine. But no matter how I'm not really familiar with C++ programming, so bugs may happen...

No matter what, it is available on GitHub: https://github.com/izwb003/CineIA_CLI. If someone are interested in it welcome to give it a try.

[Carsten]

Great work!